[WSIS CS-Plenary] There's a problem -> Re: [governance] Proposition de candidats pour le WGIG
Nabil El-Khodari
webmaster at nilebasin.com
Thu Oct 7 04:36:03 BST 2004
I agree that these names do not represent civil society entity. Let us
follow the definition of civil society to evaluate:
"A "Civil Society" is the result of different components of populations
and communities, and refers to the sphere in which citizens and social
initiatives organize themselves around objectives, constituencies and
thematic interests. They act collectively through their organizations
known as Civil Society Organizations (CSOs) which include movements,
entities, institutions autonomous from the State which in principle, are
non-profit-making, act locally, nationally and internationally, in defence
and promotion of social, economic and cultural interests and for mutual
benefit. They intermediate between their constituencies/members, with the
State as well as the United Nations bodies. They do this through lobbying
and/or provision of services. Though belonging to the non-State actor
category, they are different from the private sector and NGOs as they may
not be registered, may replace the public sector, are not always
structured and often their members are not officially recognized"
NGOs are part of civil society, so I was amazed that our organization was
omitted from the list of accredited organizations for the purpose of WSIS
II (Tunis), in spite the facts that:
- We have participated in the preparatory processes of the WSIS through
our Secretary General who is a resident of Geneva.
- I have personally attended the Geneva meeting last December on my own
expenses as we were not sponsored on the view that we are a 'developing
country' NGO.
Can any one tell me what is really going on? Should NGOs care about the
WSIS if they are not allowed in the decision-making process and there is
lack of transparency?
Sincerely,
Nabil El-Khodari
Founder/Treasurer
Nile Basin Society
Tel.: +1 (647) 722-3256
Fax: +1 (647) 722-3273
http://nilebasin.com
http://nilebasin.net
http://nile.ca
108 Waterbury Dr.
Toronto, Ontario, M9R 3Y3
Canada
"If the people will lead, the leaders will follow." Dr. David Suzuki
-----Original Message-----
From: plenary-admin at wsis-cs.org [mailto:plenary-admin at wsis-cs.org] On
Behalf Of Hervé Le Crosnier
Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 4:19 PM
To: Bertrand de LA CHAPELLE
Cc: plenary at wsis-cs.org; governance at lists.cpsr.org; Bruno.Oudet at imag.fr;
muguet at mdpi.net
Subject: [WSIS CS-Plenary] There's a problem -> Re: [governance]
Proposition de candidats pour le WGIG
-----texte en français en fin de message --------
Bertrand de LA CHAPELLE wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> After the first round of consultations in Geneva on
> September 20-21, the size, composition and mandate of the
> WGIG remain in discussion. This makes the selection of
> potential members from civil society a delicate issue that
>
Good morning everyone,
I know that choosing delegates is really a hard task,
and I want to thank those who get this in charge.
I have read the declaration of most of the candidates,
and I am really suprised by this one.
> Second, based on the submissions from other Civil Society
> thematic caucuses, a list of "connectors" has been
> established to facilitate interaction with various thematic
> constituencies as the process expands to a broader range of
> issues :
>
> - Jonathan Cave (UK), senior Economist, Rand Europe;
> connector for the Scientific Information Working Group
I don't know M. Cave, and sure I think that, as a person,
he certainly is very interesting and know of what he's
talking about. My problem is not with the person.
But with considering the Rand Corporation as a
civil society constituent.
In his presentation, Jonathan Cave says :
"Dr. Cave belongs to the civil society sector, and participates
in the WSIS process through several accredited NGOs:
the Global eSustainability Initiative (GeSI)
(http://www.gesi.org ); RAND Europe
(http://www.rand.org/randeurope), the Club of Rome
(www.clubofrome.org - via the Brussels chapter)
So i looked at the Rand Corp Europe (i know of the america
leading group, who can hardly be "civil society"
representative).
The RAND Europe has the following three boards:
-------------------------------------------------------------
* Board of Directors
* Advisory Board
* Board of Trustees
RAND Europe Board of Directors
James A. Thomson (Chairman)
President and CEO RAND Corporation United States
Stephen M. Drezner
Senior Advisor RAND Corporation United States
Martin van der Mandele
President RAND Europe the Netherlands
Floris A. Maljers
Retired Chairman Unilever N.V.
the Netherlands
Lloyd N. Morrisett
Children's Television Workshop
United States
Maarten C. van Veen
Retired Chairman Hoogovens
the Netherlands
Lo C. van Wachem
Chairman, Board of Directors
Zurich
the Netherlands
Former Chairman, Supervisory Board
Royal Dutch Shell the Netherlands
RAND Europe Advisory Board
Robin Renwick of Clifton (Chairman)
Chairman J. P. Morgan plc.
United Kingdom
Jan K. Bielecki
Director for Poland, Bulgaria and Albania
European Bank for Reconstruction and Development
United Kingdom
Carl Bildt
Special Envoy of the United Nations Secretary-General for the Balkans
Olivier Debouzy
Partner August & Debouzy
France
Thérèse Delpech
Director Atomic Energy Commission
France
Robert Hunter
U.S. Ambassador to NATO, 1993-1997
Senior Advisor RAND
United States
Jacques H. Schraven
Chairman
Federation of Netherlands Industry and Employers (VNO-NCW)
the Netherlands
Karsten D. Voigt
Coordinator for German-American Cooperation
Foreign Office
Germany
Matti Vuoria
Chairman Fortum Corporation
Finland
Jacques H. Wahl
Director, Senior Advisor, and Member of the Managing Board Banque
Nationale de Paris Paribas France
H.C. Werner Weidenfeld
Professor of Political Science
Geschwister-Scholl-Institute
Ludwig-Maximilians-University
Germany Director of the
Center for Applied Policy Research (CAP)
Germany
RAND Europe Board of Trustees (UK)
Martin van der Mandele (Chairman)
President RAND Europe
the Netherlands
Sir John Boyd
Master Churchill College
United Kingdom
Professor Sir Lawrence Freedman
Vice-Principal (Research) and Head
School of Social Science and Public Policy
King's College London
-------------------------------------------------------------
Do they really are part of the "civil society" ?
I think they mostly are head of big corporations.
It's a question of definition of what is civil society....
I also have a look at the GESI, and find membership :
-------------------------------------------------------------
Members
Bell Canada
British Telecommunications plc
Deutsche Telekom AG
Ericsson
European Telecommunication Network Operators Association (ETNO)
MM02
Telefonica SA
Vodafone plc
Associate Members
Carbon Disclosure Project
Supporting organisations
United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) Division of
Technology,
Industry and Economics
International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Telecommunication
Development Bureau
-------------------------------------------------------------
Is that really "civil society"...
So why do we need a private sector ? They can be civil
society too, isnt'it ?
I think that we have to be clear of some extends of
the civil society. If representatives of big
corporations can also be representatives in the
third sector... the tripartite organisation of the
whole WSIS is to evaluate.
Again, i have no problem with the person, and i'm
sorry if it hurts M. Cave, who i don't know.
But in his presentation, he don't says "i earn my wages
at Rand, and after i gave my energy to build the
civil society"..., but he says that "as a representative
of Rand Corp and GESI", he can be representative of
civil society.
Apologize to put my finger where it can hurt,
but we need clarification. May be there's other
problems in the list I don't know of, but I follow works
of the Rand for years, and this explode in my eyes...
Hervé Le Crosnier
(My work is to be teacher in the University of Caen. I
am a member of many civil society organizations, as ATD-Quart Monde,
ATTAC, Agir ensemble contre le chômage; I was one of the founder of the
french chapter of ISOC. I was in WSIS through the Vecam accreditation, and
my expenses were granted by Francophonie who guaranteed my freedom of
position and speech... I've wrote some papers (in french) about SMSI :
http://herve.cfeditions.org/smsi I know nobody is as clear as fresh
water... we need money to live and to work as civil society servants.. But
is different to be mandate as a member of "organisations" representatives
of the interest of the private sector.)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Bertrand de LA CHAPELLE wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> After the first round of consultations in Geneva on
> September 20-21, the size, composition and mandate of the
> WGIG remain in discussion. This makes the selection of
> potential members from civil society a delicate issue that
>
Bonjour,
Je sais combien choisir des délégués est un travail
difficile, et je veux remercier ceux qui le prenne
en charge.
J'ai lu les déclarations de la majeure partie des candidats,
et je suis vraiment surpris par l'une d'entre elles :
> Second, based on the submissions from other Civil Society
> thematic caucuses, a list of "connectors" has been
> established to facilitate interaction with various thematic >
constituencies as the process expands to a broader range of > issues : >
> - Jonathan Cave (UK), senior Economist, Rand Europe; > connector for
the Scientific Information Working Group
Je ne connais pas M. Cave, et je suis sûr qu'à titre
personnel il est certainement très intéressant et
sait de quoi il parle. Je n'ai aucun problème avec
la personne.
Mais je ne crois que que l'on puisse considérer la
Rand Corporation comme une organisation de la société civile.
Dans sa présentation, Jonathan Cave dit :
"Dr. Cave belongs to the civil society sector, and participates
in the WSIS process through several accredited NGOs:
the Global eSustainability Initiative (GeSI)
(http://www.gesi.org ); RAND Europe
(http://www.rand.org/randeurope), the Club of Rome
(www.clubofrome.org - via the Brussels chapter)
Aussi ai-je regardé le site de la Rand corporation Europe.
(je connais la Rand des Etats-Unis, et je crois qu'on
ne peut pas la considérer comme représentant la
société civile...)
La Rand Europe a trois bureaux, dont voici les membres :
-------------------------------------------------------------
* Board of Directors
* Advisory Board
* Board of Trustees
RAND Europe Board of Directors
James A. Thomson (Chairman)
President and CEO RAND Corporation United States
Stephen M. Drezner
Senior Advisor RAND Corporation United States
Martin van der Mandele
President RAND Europe the Netherlands
Floris A. Maljers
Retired Chairman Unilever N.V.
the Netherlands
Lloyd N. Morrisett
Children's Television Workshop
United States
Maarten C. van Veen
Retired Chairman Hoogovens
the Netherlands
Lo C. van Wachem
Chairman, Board of Directors
Zurich
the Netherlands
Former Chairman, Supervisory Board
Royal Dutch Shell the Netherlands
RAND Europe Advisory Board
Robin Renwick of Clifton (Chairman)
Chairman J. P. Morgan plc.
United Kingdom
Jan K. Bielecki
Director for Poland, Bulgaria and Albania
European Bank for Reconstruction and Development
United Kingdom
Carl Bildt
Special Envoy of the United Nations Secretary-General for the Balkans
Olivier Debouzy
Partner August & Debouzy
France
Thérèse Delpech
Director Atomic Energy Commission
France
Robert Hunter
U.S. Ambassador to NATO, 1993-1997
Senior Advisor RAND
United States
Jacques H. Schraven
Chairman
Federation of Netherlands Industry and Employers (VNO-NCW)
the Netherlands
Karsten D. Voigt
Coordinator for German-American Cooperation
Foreign Office
Germany
Matti Vuoria
Chairman Fortum Corporation
Finland
Jacques H. Wahl
Director, Senior Advisor, and Member of the Managing Board Banque
Nationale de Paris Paribas France
H.C. Werner Weidenfeld
Professor of Political Science
Geschwister-Scholl-Institute
Ludwig-Maximilians-University
Germany Director of the
Center for Applied Policy Research (CAP)
Germany
RAND Europe Board of Trustees (UK)
Martin van der Mandele (Chairman)
President RAND Europe
the Netherlands
Sir John Boyd
Master Churchill College
United Kingdom
Professor Sir Lawrence Freedman
Vice-Principal (Research) and Head
School of Social Science and Public Policy
King's College London
-------------------------------------------------------------
S'agit-il vraiment de membres de la "société civile" ?
Il me semble que la majeure partie sont des directeurs
de grandes transnationales.
Nous sommes face à une question de définition de la société
civile.
J'ai regardé de même GESI, et découvert la liste
des membres :
-------------------------------------------------------------
Members
Bell Canada
British Telecommunications plc
Deutsche Telekom AG
Ericsson
European Telecommunication Network Operators Association (ETNO)
MM02
Telefonica SA
Vodafone plc
Associate Members
Carbon Disclosure Project
Supporting organisations
United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) Division of
Technology,
Industry and Economics
International Telecommunication Union (ITU) Telecommunication
Development Bureau
-------------------------------------------------------------
Est-ce vraiment cela la "société civile" ?
Alors pourquoi avons-nous besoin d'un "secteur
privé" ? Ne pourrait-on aussi les mettre dans la
"société civile ?
Je pense que nous devons maîtriser les frontières
souples de la société civile. Si les représentants
des grandes entreprises peuvent aussi devenir des
représentants de la société civile, c'est toute la
structure tri-partite du SMSI qui doit être ré-évaluée.
Je le répète, ce n'est pas un problème personnel avec
M. Cave que je ne connais pas, et je suis désolé
si cela le blesse.
Mais dans sa présentation il ne dit pas : "je gagne ma vie
à la Rand et après je donne mon énergie à la
société civile", mais il dit qu'il pourrait être
nommé "comme un représentant de Rand et Gesi"
au titre de la société civile.
Je vous prie de m'excuser de mettre mon doigt là où
ça fait mal, mais nous avons besoin d'un peu de clarté.
Il y a peut être d'autres problèmes dans la liste
que je ne connais pas, mais je lis les travaux de la
Rand depuis assez longtemps pour que cela m'ait sauté
aux yeux.
Hervé Le Crosnier
(par mon travail, je suis enseignant à l'Université de
Caen, je suis membre de plusieurs organisation de la
société civile comme ATD Quart-Monde, ATTAC et Agir
ensemble contre le chômage ; j'ai participé à la création du chapitre
français de l'ISOC. J'étais au SMSI grâce à l'accréditation de Vecam, et
mes frais étaient pris en charge par la Francophonie, qui garantissait ma
liberté de parole. J'ai écris plusieurs papiers sur le SMSI à
http://herve.cfeditions.org/smsi Je sais que personne n'est blanc-bleu, et
que nous devons gagner notre vie et avoir des financements pour nos
activités sociales.... Mais cela est complètement différent que d'être
mandaté pour la société civile comme représentant des intérêts du secteur
privé).
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