long reply Re: [WSIS CS-Plenary] SMSI site web au Canada

[Liss Jeffrey]

My Dear Robert:

I must admit that I would not have started this thread, certainly not on a 
global forum, and find surprising the idea that you are now implying that a 
Canadian civil society initiative does not exist, and is not welcome? 
Robert, I do not know how you act usually, however calling people 
"ignorant" is not exactly civil, particularly when you have your facts 
wrong. Since we have links to the important community networking global 
site to which you refer (and which is not a Canada specific site) you may 
wish to revise your erroneous views.

It is well known that there is a web site for Canadian civil society. It 
was launched in Geneva, a matter that you are fully aware of. We reported 
from Geneva and have done much work to continue to inform Canadians and 
provide a growing platform for Canadian views and voices.
There continues to be only one specific place for Canadian civil society to 
discuss our next steps, this web site http://wsis.ecommons.ca ,
with its French sister site http://smsi.agora-electronique.ca .
Naturally, we pay close attention to developments elsewhere, cite our 
sources, and feature links so that people can find what matters to them. We 
have been working on these goals in various arenas for a very long time, 
and wish others to know about important work taking place.

You have been kept informed of this important C2C resource from the outset. 
We had asked for and expected your help. When we started the Canadian civil 
society site, as a labour of love and also as a place for civil society 
voices that specifically could address Canadian issues, there was no such 
gathering spot. There is now, and has been since December 2003. We asked 
Canadian Commission for Unesco for some modest seed support for this 
initiative, and they came through. Mostly this is an open source labour of 
love by the eCommons/agora volunteers (who are in many parts of the country).
FYI then: There continues to be only one specific place for Canadian civil 
society to discuss our next steps, this web site http://wsis.ecommons.ca ,
with its French sister site http://smsi.agora-electronique.ca .

We are working hard to ensure that the many groups in Canada, including 
those who knew about or went to Geneva and those who did not, are fully 
included in the process. That had not been done previously, and is a task 
that will require all of us to work together.

I am pleased to announce that we also have an email list that will support 
these efforts.
Please subscribe at http://lists.ecommons.net/mailman/listinfo/wsis-smsi
(List originated December 9, 2003, but we preferred to build up the web site).

Robert, I would not have started this thread but since you have displayed a 
temper and arrogant attitude that astonishes, allow me to make some 
observations (which have also been communicated to me by others):
- No one tried to inform Canadian citizens at large about the Wsis process, 
prior to Geneva. (Canadian Commission for Unesco did in our view a credible 
job of alerting Canadian civil society groups about Wsis). We at the 
national not for profit eCommons/agora have been trying to network 
horizontally around Wsis for some time now, because our basic goals 
including closing digital divides and ensuring common spaces to link 
Canadian communities, are compatible with Wsis goals. Last summer for 
instance we surveyed all Canadian NGOs accredited to Wsis to find out their 
goals and intentions for Geneva. The results of that survey can be found at 
the home pages of the www.ecommons.net and www.agora-electronique.net sites.
- We have linked to and invited in all possible groups, including Alain 's 
community networking global group. More are coming in daily. Had someone 
been doing what we are doing when we started, we would not have started. We 
would have complimented what others are doing, as this is always our 
approach (since 1997). Our eLab's motto is " Let us not reinvent the wheel, 
let's connect the spokes. "
We started this initiative, have developed it, continue to grow and steward 
it. To pretend that you do not know of this web site initiative is simply 
not credible.
- So the question becomes: what is the problem? Are you honestly suggesting 
that you have the authority to say whether there is or is not a Canadian 
civil society web space, despite all information to the contrary? Surely 
you jest! Have we all not much better things to do with the limited time we 
have for such efforts? Why not cooperate?

eCommons/agora is taking on this task of working with all groups in a fully 
inclusive manner to see that we reach out to newcomers to the process, and 
get our views as distinctive Canadian civil society groups onto the agenda 
of our own arm's length designated coordinator, Canadian Commission for 
Unesco, and our own government and private sector, as well as that of the 
global civil society groups. The latter had always been your main event. To 
remind you:
There was no web site where Canadians especially civil society groups and 
members could contribute (go see all the Canadian government sites and you 
will note that they are not terribly interactive) and we required a post 
Geneva site to inform and build momentum to Tunis. We do have one now.

We should not be dividing up limited resources, nor taking up important 
space online for such internal national debates, instead we should work 
together. I will not do this again, and ask forgiveness of the list 
members, but I do so because of the larger question at issue here.
You have always focused on the international civil society level. That 
seemed complimentary to our own national (panCanadian) approach.
Both you and Amali have indicated that you are the focal points for North 
America CS. You were invited to take part in the web site. Amali indicated 
that she would.You did not reply.
We held a great meeting last week in Toronto on follow up to Wsis. We will 
hold one soon with interested associates in Montreal You were invited in 
Toronto, and did not reply, nor did you show up. At all points, we have 
been inclusive, and cooperative.
You have been competitive and alas seem to think that you are the only 
person who speaks for Canadian civil society. This is simply not the case. 
We speak in many voices, and there is so much help and work needed. We 
should all be working together, at various levels and in various capacities.
This incident has called into question for some of us the legitimacy of the 
current post Geneva civil society process.
If this is the high handed and competitive approach that we see in Canada, 
what must be happening elsewhere? You do not have the authority to declare 
that important national initiatives are not legitimate.
This must be discussed, and worked out.
It is not in my view sensible to consider that somehow there is a closed 
shop of global official civil society.
We did not elect you, I have no idea who did, and I now question your 
motives, albeit I have tried to overlook your lack of friendliness and 
cooperation in the past, and I totally refute your lack of facts and your 
incredible arrogant attitude, and consider that your actions have created 
barriers to a common front for civil society, which is what those of us in 
Canada who care about this process would prefer to see.

Sorry to others who have to witness this. However, guess it is a good sign 
that we care so passionately here in the land of ice and snow. Since Robert 
has not communicated online in French, I will not ask my associates to 
reframe this en Francais.

I call for serious attention to the legitimacy and credibility of a so 
called focal point for North America who is clearly not interested in 
fostering the kind of cooperative spirit that we all need to work towards.

Please do feel free to participate in:
http://wsis.ecommons.ca
and in french
http://smsi.agora-electronique.ca
You can subscribe for email updates to threads of interest.
The site continues to expand with new features.
If you prefer email : please subscribe at 
http://lists.ecommons.net/mailman/listinfo/wsis-smsi
and we will send out useful info as it becomes available.

Thanks for your patience list members,
Liss Jeffrey
eCommons/agora
Canada

One more thing Robert: most Canadians do not respond well to the kind of 
aggressive move you attempted in your email to JP and myself. They get 
turned off involvement when it seems that some good people would prefer to 
fight among themselves rather than cooperate. Let's move on to a better 
scene. Cooperation is good. No one is threatening your contributions to the 
international official civil society Wsis process. What is at issue is your 
willingness to cooperate with others who are taking initiatives, your 
authority to denounce others, and your recognition that there are others 
besides yourself and your closed shop who intend to be full CS players in 
the process leading to Tunis. Let us hope that you can find it in your 
character to cooperate. CS needs all the help that it can get, eh? Best 
wishes, Liss J
At 06:26 PM 09/02/2004 -0500, Robert Guerra wrote:

>Jean-Philippe and Liss:
>
>are you referring to the wsis-cs.org or www.geneva2003.org site? as they 
>are the only, semi-official civil sites.
>
>In canada - there's isn't such a site, at least not yet. if there's 
>anything close - i'd say it's the site mentioned at the Unesco debrief in 
>Ottawa - The site created by The World Forum on Community Networking well 
>over a year ago. Not recognize their efforts, and tri-lingual website is 
>to be ignorant of what others having been doing already around WSIS in Canada
>
><http://www.globalcn.org/>
>
>
>regards
>
>Robert
>
>
>
>--On Monday, February 9, 2004 5:44 PM -0500 Liss Jeffrey 
><ljeffrey at ecommons.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>Ça bouge au Canada !
>>
>>Dès cette semaine, sur le site de la société civile, il y aura le
>>lancement
>>de l'annuaire des groupes canadiens de la société civile et des
>>particuliers
>>ainsi qu'une liste de projets.
>>http://wsis.ecommons.ca
>>http://smsi.agora-electronique.ca
>>
>>Enregistrez-vous pour participer. Si vous le désirez, un message
>>électronique vous avertira des ajouts d'information au site et des
>>nouvelles
>>contributions au forum. La liste électronique du smsi-wsis arrivera
>>cette
>>semaine, une fois que les comptes rendus sur la rencontre de l'UNESCO à
>>Ottawa seront prêts. La rencontre de Toronto (5 fév.) est maintenant
>>disponible en ligne et le diaporama ne saurait tarder. Il y aura une
>>rencontre avec des collègues à Montréal le 19 février. Un rapport
>>suivra.
>>
>>Merci
>>Jean-Philippe Grou
>>et Liss Jeffrey
>>
>>
>>At 02:26 PM 09/02/2004 -0500, you wrote:
>>
>>>Lots of action in Canada!
>>>
>>>The directory of Canadian civil society groups and individuals, and
>>>the  inventory of projects are launching this week on the civil
>>>society web site. http://wsis.ecommons.ca
>>>http://smsi.agora-electronique.ca
>>>
>>>Register if you wish to take part.
>>>You can get email notification of info posted on the web site, or
>>>forum  contributions, should you so choose.
>>>The wsis-smsi e-list will launch this week once we have the reports
>>>from  the Unesco civil society briefing in Ottawa ready.
>>>The netcast from the lively Toronto meeting (Feb. 5) is now online,
>>>the  slide shows are to come, and we will meet with colleagues in
>>>Montreal on  February 19th, and report further.
>>>
>>>Thanks all
>>>Liss Jeffrey
>>>eCommons/agora
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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